Ghosts, God and the Trouble With Ghosthunters.
Right, a quick post today, which will cheekily incorporate in the second half a re-post of some material I posted years ago on this very topic, because let’s face it, no one is going to click on a link to read another entry. Many of you know I have great respect for the sceptic writer/researcher Hayley Stevens, especially as she constantly manages to actually get out there and do real research, and to write more than I can. I put it down to my age – “it’s never how it used to be/what happened to all that energy?” Today Hayley has written an interesting piece on a site for young atheists, skeptics and freethinkers, The Heresy Club. I had to have a nose, despite being neither young, nor as it happens an atheist.
As usual Hayley’s article is excellent, well written and informative, and deals with real issues – an issue I care deeply about, the damage that poor research ethics in amateur ghost groups can do when they are let loose in private houses or even businesses and upset or scare people badly. Now I’m not going to quote Hayley’s article in full, because I want you to go read it for yourself. Do that now. No summary I give would be fair, because she makes several points.
However I am notoriously contrarian (freethinking?) so I’m going to disagree with one fundamental thing Hayley wrote, which is at the heart of the article for me, as an Anglican and a “ghosthunter” of sorts. She writes –
Looking back now, on those early years, I can see that the whole culture surrounding ghost hunting that I became involved with was a mish-mash of religious practices and beliefs that were all geared towards convincing the people involved that their very soul was in danger from evil at all times, and that invisible enemies were around us just waiting for us to mess up so that they could attack us psychically.
Now given in the past I have suggested that ghosthunting groups do sometimes take on the attributes of a religious group, and in fact enjoyed once a great discussion on the phone with Jeff Belanger where we talked about this, I can’t disagree too strongly. However, s always I’m going to raise issues.
Number one is the fact that in the sociology of religion defining what a religion or religious group is really proves difficult. Patriotism, political parties and ideologies, even perhaps scepticism or atheism are defined by some as having the same kind of principles involved, and hence “secular religions”. I don’t mean by this the people who used to turn up to sneer on Richard Dawkin’s forum and say “Atheism is a religion: he is your guru.” I’m talking about serious academic sociologists desperately trying to pin down what defines something as a religious behaviour. I happen to have spent a lot of my life as an academic studying religion: so I’m not going to get sidetracked in to a huge discussion of this, which would bore everyone. However it raises another point, which Alex Gabriel has already highlighted in the comments much better than I ever could! We can clearly see the Roman Catholic Church, or the CofE, or various other religions denominations are “religious” because of what they do and their detailed creeds. Yet those groups inpose really strict behavourial codes and ethical requirements on their members, and while I may claim to be an Anglican, many Anglicans might say “hey CJ you are not – you don’t go to Church enough/have shabby morals/dabble in the occult” or whatever. We know what these groups stand for – they are authoritarian in a real sense, and people who don’t do the “right” things get kicked out, or told they are “bad” members of the group.
Now some religions have very little in the way of formal dogmas, theology, doctrine and imposition. Hinduism is incredibly diverse, and hard for me to comprehend as a religion cos I’m used to this rather more authoritarian structure, but there are core beliefs, and social measures to ensure consistency of practice as far as I can see. Wicca is perhaps the best example of a theological anarchy – the various “wiccan denominations” have core theological beliefs, but those outsoide of the formal coven-structures, which in the 90′s I think though do not know comprised most of the self-proclaimed adherents of the Wiccan religion could believe an incredible diversity of things about the nature of the divine, afterlife, and karma etc. This “folk wicca” ran the risk of being mistaken for the coven traditions, and just because a complete loony did something vile in the name of the religion, well it was not in any way the fault of any other adherents of that faith. As Alex Gabriel wrote
“You hear a lot from New Agers and ecumenicals, don’t you, that the coercive and oppressive elements of religion are all from the institutional structures? But this is a brilliant example of how bad beliefs themselves can be oppressive.”
Yes I agree totally, well said Alex, and I’m no fan of heavy authoritarian religion, but I am painfully aware of the dangers posed by liberty of conscience. I absolutely hold the principle of freedom of religious belief and non-belief, but as anyone who knows me know I distinguish between beliefs and practices/behaviours. If a practice is illegal, and damaging to others, your freedom of belief does not make it right in my mind. Still we could disagree on this and still we are no closer to my actual issue with Hayley’s article.
Many ghosthunting groups do adopt a sort of “folk spiritualism”, and in some cases other religious beliefs, In the USA we see a lot of very religious ghosthunters – they often term themselves demonologists, and look at things in terms of a very religious paradigm, because the base culture there is profoundly religious compared with the UK. Yet in all my ghosthunting experience nearly none of the participants have been Christian believers, or held to any of the other mainstream faiths — with the exception of David Carter-Green, and on the social and academic side David Sivier. And in fact, belief in the paranormal does not seem to map well to what most people would see as “religious belief” in any way — in fact quite the opposite.
Now years ago I wrote a piece I consider one of the most important ton this blog, called “Are Education and Atheism Enemies of Reason”. The title was half joking half serious, but it’s so directly relevant to what we are talking about here i’m going to reproduce it before moving on to discuss the implications…
“The majority of Britons believe in heaven and life after death, new research suggests.” The BBC News story here is well worth reading, and shows some interesting things. Firstly we are a lot less sceptical about New Age ideas and certain fringe practices like astrology and tarot cards than we used to be – what Randi’s people categorize as “woo”. However we are more sceptical about certain aspects of the supernatural than a decade ago in 1998 – in short popular belief in the supernatural is constantly waxing and waning; I think I could have told you that. The popular culture of the 1970′s was far more sympathetic to parapsychology say than the 90′s were – and yet the 2000′s saw a sudden interest in Spiritualism connected with certain TV shows.
I have a rather heretical thought about ‘paranormal’ beliefs, and their relationship to atheism. I originally posed a question on Professor Dawkins forum as it was inspired by his show The Enemies of Reason. I am sure the Professor has better things to do than answer my questions though, (and he didn’t) and so I have revised it and asked it here.
I had been reading The Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener (1983) by noted mathematician, science writer and skeptic Martin Gardner. In 1976 Martin Gardner was a founder member of CSI(COP), which has done a great deal over the years in debunking paranormal claims and fighting the rise of superstition. Many readers of this blog may have his enjoyed his Fads & Fallacies In the Name of Science.
In Chapter 3 of The Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener – “Why I am not a Paranormalist” – Gardner mounts a blistering attack on superstition. It contains many of the themes touched in Dawkin’s The Enemies of Reason, and one curious disagreement.
Martin Gardner, 1983 wrote:
As always with such manias, causes are multiple: the decline of traditional religious beliefs among the better educated, the resurgence of Protestant Fundamentalism, disenchantment with science for creating a technology that is damaging the environment and building horrendous war weapons, increasingly poor quality of science instruction on all levels of schooling, and many other factors…
I found that first bit fascinating. Now Gardner is not Fundamentalist obviously, he is not a Christian, though he is a Fideist rejecting all special revelation, but remaining a theist. Like most scholars he sees Fundamentalism as arising recently (within the last century pretty much) and a bad thing– but he regards the “decline of traditional religious beliefs among the better educated” as a key factor in the rise of pseudo-science, cults and superstition?
It in no way justifies religious belief, but it is very interesting as a claim. OK, so I doubted. Gardner is a theist – he must be biased. What are his sources? Luckily he references them. It is the article Superstitions Old and New by William Sims Bainbridge and Rodney Stark in The Skeptical Inquirer, Volume 4, Summer 1980.
Gardner says they
…reported on their surveys of how beliefs in certain aspects of the current occult mania correlated with religious faith. They found people with no professed religion were the most inclined to believe in ESP and extraterrestrial UFOs. Paranormal cults were strongest in areas where the traditional churches were weakest.
Never trusting anyone’s opinions I have just been through the Sheep/Goat tests from my 1993 Paranormal Beliefs Survey of attendees at a lecture series in Cheltenham. The test used by the group was an early Sheep/Goat test which measured some religious claims as well as paranormal ones. Later we adopted the 1979 New Australian Sheep/Goat Test by Michael Thalbourne, but this earlier version suited my purposes. There were 83 respondents, and while I have not had time to perform a proper statistical test – the data is on stapled questionnaires, not in electronic format and it’s too late to type it all in tonight – there does appear to be a very strong correlation between non-belief in God and belief in UFOs as alien visitors, and between non-belief in Jesus as divine and belief in both ghosts & magic, to give a few examples. I recall now being once asked asked if many parapsychologists were Christian – and I said none at all that I knew of, they were all atheists. I have just looked at my “psychics” who I sometimes work with on testing – only one identifies as Spiritualist, two as atheist (Atheism is VERY common among Spiritualists following the example of Arthur Findlay – indeed Roll’s Campaign For Philosophical Freedom is an atheist organization which makes Dawkins look like a vicar) and seven “none”; six more are unclassifiable.
Not one professed belief in any “orthodox” faith. Now I’m sure Dawkins would regard my Anglicanism as just as much superstitious woo as does say crystal power, so this is a false distinction to him: but the evidence seems to suggest to me that the modern irrationalist supernaturalism is inversely related to traditional (non-fundamentalist) religious beliefs. I think whoever misquoted G.K. Chesterton was right, even if as is possible Chesterton never actually said it “when a man stops believing in God he does not believe in nothing: he believes in anything”. Correlation is not causality – and of course the better educated college students are more likely to believe in ghosts etc -
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/060121_paranormal_poll.html
assuming the Skeptical Inquirer is cited correctly! So perhaps the increase in woo is just a by product of the decline of traditional religious belief, increased secularism and atheism, and better education? The evidence certainly seems to point that way???
I find this both interesting, amusing, and deeply ironic.
So I wrote a few years back, and I have discussed at length elsewhere the issues. What concerns me is that actually while Hayley as a rational sceptic may be an excellent investigator, “atheism” as a non-belief does not actually necessarily imply scepticism of any claim but the existence of a God. There are plenty of loony and not bright atheists, just as there are plenty of loony and thick as two short planks Christians out there. Furthermore, rationality does not always map to good personal ethics, as I think we all recognize, and even rational people make mistakes – though like the Christians who confess they are crap at it by definition (we are all sinners), they may spot the problem and be able to do something about it.
Still, it’s peoples right to believe what they like, and no one has a monopoly on how to investigate spooks etc, or say what we should believe. The actions/behaviours/practices which are damaging to others should however clearly be subject to scrutiny, and I’m absolutely in favour of higher ethical standards in the field. I just don’t think that religiosity, in the normal sense, is much to do with a lot of this — and I hope I have somehow made that point. Yes my personal research ethics may be terrible, as I often joke, but that stands completely independent of the actual religious framework I exist within (Church of England liberal, in case you wondered.)
So as Martin Gardner said, I think the decline of traditional religious belief may actually underlie, rather than be the opposite of, this explosion of popular ghosthunting. Still a great article by Hayley, and got me thinking as normal. Now I really must go do some work!
cj x
The Triumph of Skepticism?
There are few things more annoying than Christians in the USA who claim to be a tiny persecuted minority; but it’s an idea that goes back a long way, to the Apostolic age, when persecution was real and rife. There are three things that annoy me about “we are victims” claims by American Christians – firstly, they tend to originate from sects who hold almost everyone else, even their fellow Christians, to not be “True Christians” ( I let God decide who is on His side myself); secondly Christianity is still overwhelmingly dominant in the USA, and can be oppressive to non-Christians; and thirdly there are still Christians in many other parts of the world dying in significant numbers, being imprisoned or tortured, for their faith. The so called “culture wars” of the USA pale in comparison. I’m not saying Christians are not persecuted in the U.S. note — some may well be — but the Christian majority there has done it fair degree of shin kicking and hate-mongering over the years, deplored by the vast body of believers as it may be.
The UK is VERY different from the USA in this respect — a mere handful of my friends hold any religious faith, and Christians are actually probably a minority, not that you could tell by the census data. At least the type who go to church on a Sunday are — three out of my immediate circle meet that description, and I think in that respect I may be unusual — I may know more practising Christians than most of the readers of my blog here in the UK. Still this post is actually about the “UK Skeptic Movement”, not about religion, and therefore I won’t dwell on it too long. The one thing I will say to my US fellow believers who yearn for a return to religious education and school prayer — look at the USA, where these things do not exist, and the UK, where they are still mandated by law? Which is the more secular country? By far the UK: we may know more about religion, but we are far less likely to practice one?
So what has all this got to do with Skepticism (yes I know that is the American spelling, but it’s what most sceptical groups here use) in the UK? I actually think British Skeptics may end up like American Christians, complaining of a persecution that does not exist, and with messianic and apocalyptic motifs in their thinking and writing, unless they realise a very simple fact. They won many years ago — the battle for the public’s mind is over, done and dusted.
Now let me be clear – that does not mean that scepticism is pointless, or not urgently needed. The battle in the medical world for evidence based practice, the need to fight the false marketing claims that permeate our culture, attack media hysteria, and continue the brilliant sceptical research in parapsychology, anomalous experience etc is pressing and real — I still think Skeptics in the Pub etc do a great deal of good, in exposing people to new and useful information — but gals and guys, you are not the persecuted minority. We do not face an imminent dark age of woo and superstition. We face a declining health system, economic misery and appalling poverty, educational standards and public health problems, but we are fighting to get them fixed. Crystal power, reincarnation, and people frittering away their life savings on quack cures is not about to cause the end of all we know. Because most people in the UK are fundamentally sceptical, cynical, and questioning nowadays, or so I believe.
Yes we all know people who embrace some outrageous woo – sadly it goes hand in hand with the end of institutionalised religion. What we have to remember though is that the battle has been hard fought, but rationality and scepticism have often won. I’m not a fan of much of what passes for Skepticism these days — too often I find myself wondering about what seems to be ideologically driven denialism, rather than actual research or fair critique — but I have seen both sceptics and believers in various things frothing with anger at each other. Hey dudes, we all have our biases, and our idea of prior probability, and often we get angry when deeply held beliefs are challenged and stop listening. That’s true of human beings – it’s a human thing. But Skeptics are supposed to question and doubt, and I think sceptics are just as prone to in-fighting and argument as any other group, so the believers need not fear some monolithic ideology of ridicule developing to crush them – there will always be intelligent sceptics in the “Skeptic Movement” who will question allegedly sceptical research as much as they question “woo”. It’s why I put “Skeptic Movement” in quotes – because really it’s just a bunch of people who share some interests, and who talk to each other, and have a kind of loose tribal loyalty that falls apart as soon as you put them in a room together. It’s a social phenomenon, not a cult. There are no rules, doctrines or dogmas, just a lot of Doubting Thomases who enjoy critical thinking, and sadly all too often mocking those whose ideas they don’t understand and whose research they have not read. But on the whole they are decent, kind, and intelligent folks – much like most of our age group in the UK?
Now most of you will be shaking your heads by now – my believing friends wondering if I have lost the plot, given how fiercely I argue my corner for various beliefs against the “Skeptic Movement”: my sceptical friends thinking I have lost the plot, because the battle against woo remains white hot. Well stop and think — when did you last see major woo on TV, on any of the terrestrial channels? In my case it was some nonsense talked about the non-existence of a Davidic Kingdom on a Biblical archaeology show — sure it may not have been much of a kingdom, but it existed as even minimalist like Finkelstein admit — we have some archaeological evidence for it. I’m sure I have seen tons of crap about new wonder beauty treatments on the adverts, but on the whole, you have to go to cable to get real woo these days, to the ghosthunting and paranormal shows that even dedicated ghosthunters and psi-researchers like me, and let’s face it even the Little Woggle Spiritualist Ghost Group or whatever, think are utter nonsense, though occasionally entertaining!
OK, so why do I claim the sceptics have won the fight for public consciousness? Let me quote myself from comments on a previous post “However market forced DO influence what is produced, and Wiseman signed a five figure book deal at Frankfurt. Good for him! However I fail to see how we can argue that sceptical books outsell paranormal ones now. Let’s take two excellent sceptical books — Paranormality and Bad Science — both Amazon Top 10 bestsellers. Currently it is at 206. the wonderful Bad Science, two years after its release is at 281. The best selling psychic woo book is at 1,206! The first actual parapsychological book I find, on NDE, is at 43,319, and though much woo can be found before, and the first hard core academic parapsi book is Irwin & Watt’s Parapsychology (despite heavy plugging by me) which comes in at #13,472. I think this tells us something about the influence and market for sceptical books in the UK, as opposed to the market for woo and academic parapsychology??? The fight for sceptics to be heard has long since ended, and I would say among readers is done and dusted?”
So let’s try an experiment. Let’s look at books by Goldacre, Wiseman, Dawkins, Randi and Shermer – sure all heavy hitting public intellectuals — and then look at books by the household names of the paranormal — Derek Acorah, Colin Fry, Most Haunted, TAPS (the American ghost group who have their own popular TV show) and Lord help us Sylvia Browne. Who will rank highest in this top ten? I’ll take the first book listed by each, and use today’s sales rankings.
Richard Wiseman, Paranormality, (2011), #202
Ben Goldacre, Bad Science, (2009), #285
Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, (2007), #481
Colin Fry, By Your Side, (2010), #8,955
Sylvia Browne, Life on the Other Side, (2004) #29,835
John Edward, Infinite Quest, (2010) #67,128
Michael Shermer, Why People Believe Weird Things, (2007) #78,740
TAPS, Seeking Spirits, (2009) #94,292
Derek Acorah, The Psychic World of …, (2005), #146,886
Most Haunted , Official Guide, (2005), #213,332
James Randi, Flim Flam, (1994), #261,312
Look at the sales rankings. Now the problem is the way publishers work books sell in volume initially, then tail off. I can’t do a proper analysis of total units sold, as Amazon do not give away that data — but we can try dividing the sales ranks by number of years since published? Still the picture is clear – bear in mind the huge gap between the highest ranked book sales and the lower ones — scepticism sells in the UK market??
I’ll write more on this I am sure, but I’ll throw it open to discussion now…
cj x
On Thin Ice? The Blessed Bishop of Lincoln!
Well snow had fallen, snow on snow, snow on snow. The roads were impassable, or so the media said, in large parts of the country. Panic buying has set in in some places, as the tabloids helpfully said, reassuring the public with useful headlines about food running out in the shops and causing much more. In short much like last winter!
So it comes as a relief to hear that the Church has at last decided to lend a hand, and the following rather fun story from the BBC last week made me smile.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-11805752
The Bishop of Lincoln will bless Lincolnshire’s gritters in the hope of cutting the number of winter crashes.
The Right Reverend Dr John Saxbee, who retires in January, has blessed the county’s fleet each year since 2003.
He said past ceremonies had been followed by a reduction in road deaths, which was “perhaps not a coincidence”.
The blessing takes place at Sturton by Stow on 7 December, with church leaders simultaneously carrying out ceremonies at the county’s other depots.
Bishop Saxbee said: “These annual ‘Blessing of the Gritters’ events have coincided with a dramatic reduction in the number of fatalities on Lincolnshire’s roads.
“Perhaps that is not a coincidence, and as I look to my retirement in January I hope and pray that driving carefully and arriving safely will continue to matter to all who use our road network in the years ahead.”
Well, I’m all for the Bishop! Such a blessing, regardless of his rather hedged comments on whether it is efficacious or not – and let us face it, it raises so many theological questions I’m not even going to start – does something to make the Church relevant, and if it does have a positive effect on road safety statistics then even better! On sceptic forums however the response has been a bit more reserved, even unkind. I think the issue is that people have read the service as some kind of magical rite, and felt that it was supposed to have a definite effect. I think if it did, we would all be out praying right now.


Amusingly a lot of folks have pointed out that correlation is not cause, and have looked for other reasons for the decline in road traffic fatalities in Lincolnshire; the truth is that the picture there is similar to the general decline across the UK, for which we can all be thankful. Being CJ I set about investigating.
Ok, from the Department of Transport figures to 2008, being all I have easy access to, Lincolnshire Road Deaths, and after the slash / Norfolk road deaths and then the / third set are Suffolk road deaths. I chose Norfolk & Suffolk as similar terrain in part, and as far as i know the bishops there do not bless the gritters!
1999 – 104 / 71 / 48
2000 – 71 / 75 / 56
2001 – 84 / 75 / 53
2002 – 91 / 77 / 43
2003 – 104 / 62 / 60 * blessing starts winter 2003
2004 – 77 / 63 / 42
2005 – 69 / 53 / 36
2006 – 66 / 66 / 47
2007 – 79 / 56 / 39
2008 – 51 / 38 / 31
I have no later data. What is clear is a) Lincolnshire has a higher rate of fatalities than East Anglia does, but all three are in decline.
Not wanting to try and work out which 2003 deaths were before the blessing and which after, I just did the obvious simple maths – average of deaths prior to 2003, and post 2003.
Lincolnshire
Preblessing 87.5
Post-blessing 68.4
Drop of 22%
Now the two un-blessed counties!
Norfolk
Preblessing 74.5
Post-blessing 55.2
Drop of 26%
Suffolk
Preblessing 50
Post-blessing 39
Drop of 22%
Conclusion: Blessing, while admirable and worthy, has not resulted in any effect on road deaths as far as I can see in the county. Still good publicity for road safety awareness.
Well, I guess my research is a bit coarse – one would not expect gritters to have much effect on road deaths except in the winter, and I could therefore say take fatality numbers in November, December, January & February for each county. I only note this because my methodology is a bit crude, and could in theory be masking an effect, as I’m testing total RTA fatalities per annum per county, rather than the actual “claim” made, in as far as there was one.
So as a prayer experiment a negative, but I still thank God for Bishops like Lincoln who actually do something and care about real issues, and long may he be blessed.
cj x















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